The Ladder?

[Lemur]

I haven't heard all of Yes' discography, but I'm a very big Yes fan. The Ladder was a fairly recent release for such an antiquated band, but I borrowed it from my uncle and gave it a shot. At first I wasn't terribly thrilled about it, but over time it really started grow on me and I think it is actually one of their better albums.

What are your guys' opinions on Yes music throughout the ages? They certainly have changed a lot since the beginning.

[yorksrvc]

I LOVE EVERYTHING they've done throughtout. If I have to add an exception, It would be "Tormato". I don't know why, but there's something about that album.......???? I rarely listen to it and when I do try, I never get all the way through it. Believe me, it bothers me.......I keep trying to like it.

[Rick and Roll]

I love Tormato. Played on xmas day a few years back, seemed to fit. If you don't like it that's cool, we'll talk over a beer or eight, neighbor!

It's a bit treble, esp on the first song, that could be a deterrent, York. I had to really do the same with the title track of "Going for the One", that's very high pitched also. Howe's guitar at the end bothers me a bit, but all in all a great song.

I'll only list the Yes I DON'T like. "Open Your Eyes" is an abomination. It sucks, plain and simple.

I've not heard Magnification, but based on recommendations, will get it sometime. "Talk" has a few decent cuts, but I don't see why people love that. Sharc and Spaz are big fans...it sounds great, but "I am Waiting" and "Endless Summer" are overblown, vapid pieces (ok shoot the arrows my way). I've tried to get into it.

90125 and Big Generator came out when I was in college, so I still have a liking to it. but they pissed off old school fans.

[mailotron]

Agree with Open your eyes , very weak material . During the OYE's european tour Yes played the eponym track .
I agree also with Tormato , an LP I listen only from time to time ( it contains however Don't kill the whale and onwards)
On the ladder i like particularily the first and the last track, the pseudo-south american rythmns of some tracks are not of my taste.
My all time fav LP of Yes are in order of preference :
Close to the edge

Tales from Topographic ocean

Relayer

Going for the one

Fragile

The Yes album

Yessongs

Chris Squire and Jon Anderson first solo efforts are also great

[kirk]

Rick: I'll only list the Yes I DON'T like. "Open Your Eyes" is an abomination. It sucks, plain and simple.

Thank you, Rick! "Man in the Moon"- *comic guy voice*-
Worst YES ever!
Rumor has it over at Yesfans than Jon and Chris were attempting
to woo Trevor back, replace Steve.
Damn, w/ politics like that going on, no wonder it sucked.

Rick: I've not heard Magnification, but based on recommendations,
will get it sometime.

Ehh...it's worth picking up. Let's say it- even OK YES is better
than 95% of the stuff out there.

K

[Yesspaz]

The Ladder is a great album. Magnification is a pretty darned good album. I really like Tormato. I think 75% of Tormato is as good as anything they ever did. Only tracks 5 and 6 aren't great.

As for Open Your Eyes, it's a highly flawed album, but it has it's moments. As for that Yesfans rumor about "Jon and Chris were attempting
to woo Trevor back, replace Steve," that's the biggest pile of ever. The truth is in 1996 Yes had finished the Keys to Ascension album and were planning a tour. But they were dragging their feet and the ever-energetic Wakeman was getting frustrated with the waiting around so he left that band - again. Suddenly, with tour dates looming and no way to support a Wakeman album without Wakeman, the band decided to simply take a side-project of Chris' and Billy Sherwood's and Yessify it. It wasn't a group project in the full sense of the word. Squire and Sherwood had demos and Yes simply reworked them really, really fast. So basically, it was a Sherwood solo album that got twisted up.

And for the record, I think that "Man in the Moon" is a great song. The worst Yes song ever is "No Way We Can Lose." Open Your Eyes has some strong stuff, such as "Somehow, Someway" and "Open Your Eyes." But it's got some of the weakest Yes songs with "Fortune Seller" and "The Solution."

Oh yeah, Talk. Talk is a masterwork. In my opinion it's the best Rabin album and one of the top six or seven Yes albums period. "Endless Dream" is the best Yes song after "Awaken." "The Calling" is phenomenal as well.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by Lemur

What are your guys' opinions on Yes music throughout the ages? They certainly have changed a lot since the beginning.

Lemur, I have a bit of an idea of what you like, but not all, so you'll need to sample "Talk"...at least you have some opinions now (and there are more).

A lot of it has to do with the era you grew up in. You are going back to see what is what, and that is an advantage - I did the same with the 70's bands that I was too young to know, so I heard all the material at once. Then, as the 80's rolled in, I was able to listen to each record as it came out, getting a feel of what was done before (and realizing Queen, Rush, Kansas, Yes were all better in the 70's).

This is why the 50ish crowd looks at late 60's music with such reverence.

Tormato was released when I was in college, and I like it on its on terms. Plus its decidedly Squire, and I like that!

Talk is more of the era Spaz grew up with.

Now that being said, there are exceptions...sharc is a bit older, and loves Talk. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[kirk]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

This is why the 50ish crowd looks at late 60's music with such reverence.

I realize I'm not the typical 50-ish listener in any way,
and my opinion is tempered by the fact that I can appreciate
the difficulty of writing these pieces...which some of you should really give
a shot before shredding a tune, but...

I don't see that as the same as a bunch of potbellies at the Rock and Roll
diner listening to Elvis. I won't say "much of", but some of that music
crosses timelines. My Goth daughter's crowd has nothing but respect
for Pink Floyd, the Beatles, and I'm not convinced it was from exposure
as young children.
Spaz is a great example of someone that appreciates music from
before he was born. IMO- He doesn't always understand the context
in which it was created, but I think that's a mindset, rather than an
age thing. There's plenty of young hippies out there...LOL!

Jim's older than spaz, but his mindset is such that he has
a hard time w/ Awaken, Echoes, where my group holds them in high reverence...
as does Spaz. Spaz is younger than my oldest child, so it's hard to see the
age filter in action. We're not used to seeing material hold up this well,
standing the test of time, other than classical, jazz.

What's Miles and Coltrane's shelf life to a jazz fan?
It won't surprise me at all if I have to hide/protect my DSOTM from
being lifted by my grandchildren eventually.

QUOTE=Rick and Roll]
Now that being said, there are exceptions...sharc is a bit older, and loves Talk. B[/quote]

I like Talk! I like Tormato. I haven't played OYE since buying it. P.O'.S., IMO..
even though I saw them twice during that time.

Spaz is welcome to his opinion, although I have a difficult time actually
finding this "record" he speaks of.
Ah, youth...

K

[progdirjim(Admin)]

Originally Posted by kirk

Jim's older than spaz, but his mindset is such that he has
a hard time w/ Awaken, Echoes, where my group holds them in high reverence...

I should clarify that I LIKE Awaken and Echoes, I just get confused when people list them as favorite prog songs ever or favorites from Yes/Floyd. Those songs feel like "obligations" to me. And to emphasize (I think) Kirk's point, even as an old timer (I remember when Relayer and Trilogy and Trick of the Tail were released), I really like a lot of the new music coming out; take a look at the music we're adding to the moon every month - the majority of it is new stuff, released within the last 5 years. The spirit of progressive is NEWNESS, to me...

[kirk]

Originally Posted by progdirjim

The spirit of progressive is NEWNESS, to me...

Exactly! That's the hairsplit, the difference between progressive the act,
or verb, i.e.- Radiohead, and the genre we've come to know as "prog",
which is sometimes anything other than progressive, bands that play
in the style of the 70's, AKA "Neoprog".

I'd have to say I lean toward Progressive bands, or bands that were
progressive in their time. CTTE was progressive in it's day, The
Ladder I'd have to say, isn't. A few nice tunes, but nothing groundbreaking
or advancing the genre.

Yes in some ways, is now forced into a box of having to duplicate their
former sound, not to alienate the following.
I doubt they could get away w/ something as leftfield as Relayer these days.


K

[Yesspaz]

Originally Posted by kirk

I doubt they could get away w/ something as leftfield as Relayer these days.

Whew! I have to disagree. That's EXACTLY what Yes would benefit most from and get away with is something left field. Keys to Ascension was just that. Those sessions were in the style of Yes but sounded like nothing they'd done before. They need some newness too. What's always kept Yes fresh was fresh blood. The Ladder was something great and new because of Igor and Billy - electronics and such (see "Face to Face").

Originally Posted by Jim

...Awaken and Echoes, I just get confused when people list them as favorite prog songs ever or favorites from Yes/Floyd. Those songs feel like "obligations" to me.

While I disagree, I can see what you mean. To me, the "obligatory" Yes song is "Heart of the Sunrise." Everybody seems to think it's sooooooooo great, but it's probably my least favorite 10+ Yes song. I just don't get the popularity of that song. When they play it live people go crazy, and I'm like, "eh, wish they'd played 'Sound Chaser' instead."

Which gives me an idea for a thread: What are the prog rock classics that you just can't see why they are?

[kirk]

Originally Posted by Yesspaz

That's EXACTLY what Yes would benefit most from and get away with is something left field.

Spaz- you don't know how badly I wish they would do something that
groundbreaking. After the More Drama/Syn fiasco, I get the feeling
they're having a hard time just staying afloat financially.
Chances of them sticking their necks out on what may be the swan song
seems unlikely.

If you're not up on the Syn thing, Nardinelli was making posts at Yesfans,
AGP under assumed names as well as his own, claiming the Syn were in the studio
working on the next album. Chris and his girlfriend Scottie, a longtime Yesfan,
gave that a huge WTF!?!, a flame war between them ensued for all to see.
As a result, it became so nasty Scottie was banned from AGP.
Michelle from Yesservices ( who has since passed away) was placed in the
middle, as was the Syn's publicist.

Chris stated he's now in the studio, working on a followup to his
1st album, "Fish...". Nardinelli is planning to continue w/ the Syn,
sans Chris, which should go over like a dental floss booth at a
Willie Nelson concert.
Jon and Rick are on tour together, reportedly coming to the U.S.

K

[Rick and Roll]

As usual, I tried to make a point and ended up getting too wordy, then lost my original premise trying to couch it in a oversimplification.

Thanks for straightening me out about the age thing. Kirk and Jim, you're exactly right. let me try it again...

I think the favorite (or most special personally) record by an artist is more likely to be the one that is listened to as you become musically "of age". This of course is not a absolute truth, just an idea.

[claycorn]

my first yes show was the ladder tour and my ex gal pal got me the cd,the cd is wonderful and i enjoy it everytime i put it on ^_^

[progdirjim(Admin)]

Originally Posted by kirk

which should go over like a dental floss booth at a
Willie Nelson concert.

Funniest post ever...

[Lemur]

Well, I should make a not about my generation:

When I was a child, I was musically lost. My parents never listened to popular music around me, so I was oblivious to everything. I grew up hearing a collection of children's songs and rare snippets of Eric Johnson.

Sometime in elementary school, music courses began exposing me to "oldies"--hits from the 50's. I was oblivious to most music, really, and I was lost in and endless sea of genres and stuff. One day I was channel surfing on a wooden handmade radio that my dad gave to me as a toy (we're not talking a fancy radio or anything like that...just a circuit pinned on a plain old board), I happened across an oldies station. I recognized one of the songs and kept listening. I was then mesmerized by Simon and Garfunkel, and then after having a taste of that I began to devote a lot more time listening to music.

I'd sit and listen to the radio for hours, I guess (I don't remember). I stayed with oldies for several years until I had heard most of the genre. One day I heard my dad listening to a classic rock station, and I was ready for something new, so I made the switch. Now I was enveloped in the 60's and 70's--it was all I knew. I also got exposed to a select few 80's and 90's bands that way.

Slowly I worked my way up through the decades, and by the time I made my journey to contemporary music, prog was the only clear choice here. While I listen to much popular and recent prog, you must understand that my roots go way back.

However, it is true that I've had to go back and rediscover certain bands like Yes. While I was exposed to quite a few Yes songs back in the classic rock days, I only got to hear the neatest tunes that were radio friendly. It wasn't until much later that I discovered the beauty and depth of artists like Yes. Before you get all up against radio, though, it was thanks to a classic rock station that I truly grew to love Yes, because I heard one of their albums played in entirety during a special program. I can even remember writing an e-mail to my uncle (a long time Yes fan) telling him that I just realized how great they were.

[roger]

lemur, it sounds as if you have a rare musical gift. to get to prog along the path that you took, I would guess doesn't happen very often.

but please, people, prove me wrong!


the mind boggles to think what you might do had you grown up with Beethoven and Wagner...

[Lemur]

Haha, surely, you jest! Well, there must be other people in the previous generations that went down the same path that I did, but I'm not sure. For example, I relate very much to my uncle's taste in music, and stuck to a lot of prog throughout the years, although I'm sad to say that he seems to have gone out of the loop once he hit the 80's! I just don't know what happened.

I hope that I have a musical gift (I'm very passionate about music). I'd be lying if I said I didn't think very much about my ideas about music, but if you want to see for yourself you could try listening to some of the musical samples I composed for school; they are on my website whose link is in my signature. I performed them on the keyboard, and to my knowledge they are all original. A lot of my musical ideas never see the light of day, but some day I'll have the income to buy some nice synthesizers and build a workstation for recording and such. ^_^

[PFD]

The Ladder is OK, I find there's a fair bit of filler on it, though. I prefer Magnification actually.

I really like the studio stuff they did on KTA and am disappointed they never seem to attempt something like That, That Is live...a modern day Yes classic.

Talk, IMO, is the best of the Rabin period Yes. Endless Dream is great, although some of the noisy parts in the beginning annoy me.

We won't talk about Open Your Eyes. I listened to it once, i think. Wasn't their a song on that, IIRC, that was ripped off one of Jon Anderson's solo albums?

I love Heart of the Sunrise. I agree it may be time to ditch it from the live set, cause they've been doing it all the time, it seems, since 1972. However, to me, Heart of the Sunrise is the quintessential progressive rock song. Just the way it is structured, and how perfect it all comes together; whenever somebody asks me to define progressive rock, I make them play that song. And You and I is almost the same.

Relayer is one of my least favourite Yes albums. Everynow and then I try to listen to Gates, which is OK, but the other two songs drive me insane. Something about them I just can't put my finger on..sort of like Yes' G-spot.

Tales From Topagraphic Oceans is hit or miss. I can never listen to the whole thing anymore, but from time to time I get in the mood for Revealing Science or Rituals.

If I had to rate my top Yes albums....in no particular order I would pick:
Fragile, Close To The Edge; Going For The One; KTA 1; Drama.

[Yesspaz]

Fragile to me is not as great as it's reputation. To me it suffers from the solos (why not create full group pieces in your Yes Album-Going heyday?), the overrated Heart of the Sunrise, and the overplayed Roundabout. It's not even in my top ten Yes albums.

Oh, and I don't know about OYE having a Jon solo song on it, but I know that Man in the Moon was a Chris Squire solo song that they took while in panic mode.